PBS NEWSHOUR: New York Times columnist David Brooks and Jonathan Capehart of MSNBC join Geoff Bennett to discuss the week in politics, including the government shutdown showing no signs of ending quickly, President Trump taking the opportunity to further dismantle the federal government and Pete Hegseth’s vision for the U.S. military.

GEOFF BENNETT, PBS NEWSHOUR: During this government shutdown, President Trump is turning his attention to funding earmarked for projects in Democratic states. To break down the implications and offer some perspective, we’re joined tonight by Brooks and Capehart. That’s New York Times columnist David Brooks and Jonathan Capehart of MSNBC. It’s always great to see you both. So, Jonathan, Democrats have long railed against shutdowns, but many of those same Democrats are now backing this one. Senator Schumer, who was on this program back in March, he said the country avoided disaster when he voted to keep the government open. Republicans are calling that out and saying it’s hypocritical. In your view, why isn’t it? JONATHAN CAPEHART, MSNBC: Well, one, we’re talking about a shutdown caused by Republicans not wanting to do something on health care. I mean, you can argue whether this is the time to do it. Democrats have decided this is the time to do it, especially since letters are going out next month to consumers on the American – the Affordable Care Act exchanges that their premiums are going to go up. And then they’re going to go up starting in the new year. And so Democrats are saying, well, we have got to do something to help the American people. And Republicans basically say no. And – I’m sorry. At the same time that they’re saying no, they’re also saying, just trust us. Let’s just reopen the government and then we will talk about this. The problem with that is, one, Democrats don’t trust them, nor should they. Two, there are so many other things that Republicans have to – that Congress has to get done in the seven weeks before the end of the year, the NDAA, which is a must pass defense bill, appropriations bills. Punchbowl reported this morning that there have been no talks between Democrats and Republicans about the appropriations bills that will be needed to fund the government once they get past this. And so you think that Republicans – that Democrats should trust Republicans that they’re going to take care of it later? No. And so I think that we can argue whether this is a good time to do this and whether Democrats should do it. I argue Democrats absolutely should do it because they’re doing it for all the right reasons. BENNETT: And one of those reasons Democrats say is about extending Obamacare subsidies, with premiums set to skyrocket. Senator Raphael Warnock of Georgia, he shared this example on social media. A Georgian earning $ 65,000 a year would see premiums jump from about $ 300 a month to over $ 950 a month. And, David, shouldn’t the party that controls the House, the Senate and the White House do more to end a shutdown than just dig in? DAVID BROOKS, NEW YORK TIMES: No. [LAUGHTER] I hate the fact that we’re here. So here’s what happened. In 2020, the Democrats win an election and they have power. And so, in 2021, they passed a bill which further increased the health insurance subsidies as part of Obamacare. And when they did it, they passed it to sunset in 2025. In 2024, the Republicans win an election. And guess what? They passed legislation that go with their policy priorities and they let the subsidies sunset. And so what do you do if you’re in a democracy? You go to the voters if you’re a Democrat and you say, their policy is terrible. What Senator Warnock just said, their policy is terrible. Next time, why don’t you vote for us? That’s how a democracy functions. But apparently we don’t live in a functioning democracy anymore. Now, if we don’t like the policy that the majority party passes, we shut down the government. And I’m not blaming Democrats solely. But I just think this pattern is so terrible for our democracy, is so terrible, what we just heard from the traffic controllers, and every organization. You can imagine if your own organization suddenly lost all funding every once in a while. And what it does is it further erodes the norms that really control our democracy so we don’t – we’re not – we can have a boxing match in politics. Politics ain’t beanbag. But we don’t bring a knife. We don’t bring a gun. And we don’t bring AK-47, whatever it would be. And that’s what our politics is descending into. And it’s very bad for democracy. BENNETT: Elections have consequences. CAPEHART: They do have consequences, but descending into? We’re there. I mean, that road is rutted.

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