PBS NEWSHOUR: New York Times columnist David Brooks and Jonathan Capehart of MS NOW join Geoff Bennett to discuss the week in politics, including the fatal shooting of a U.S. citizen by an ICE agent, the removal of Nicolas Maduro and fresh signals of the Trump administration’s emerging vision of U.S leadership. RELATED: New Video Shows Minneapolis Shooting From Perspective Of ICE Officer

GEOFF BENNETT, PBS NEWSHOUR: This week saw a fatal shooting of a U.S. citizen by an ICE agent and fresh signals of the Trump administration’s emerging vision of U.S. leadership. Time now for the analysis of Brooks and Capehart. That’s New York Times columnist David Brooks and Jonathan Capehart of MS NOW. It has been a week, gentlemen. It’s good to see you both. So, Jonathan, this week marked a grim turning point, as an ICE agent, as you both well know, shot and killed a U.S. citizen during an enforcement operation as part of President Trump’s expanded immigration raids. Your reaction to all that’s unfolded? JONATHAN CAPEHART, MS NOW HOST: It’s a tragedy. Excuse me. It’s a tragedy that’s been unfolding in other communities around the country. I think Governor Walz, Minnesota Governor Walz was correct when he said to the president, these federal agents, these ICE agents, they’re not making us safer. You are making the community, our citizens, more afraid. And why shouldn’t they be afraid? Not just because of what happened to Renee Good, but the way they have been operating, not just in Minneapolis, but in other cities across the country, unmarked cars, unidentifiable, masked. People don’t know who these people are who are lunging at them on streets, lunging at them in their cars. And so I think that the indignation, or, as I say, the righteous indignation that we have heard from state and local officials, from the governor, most definitely from the mayor, I think is warranted. And anyone giving Mayor Frey, Minneapolis Mayor Frey the blues for being very explicit in what he wants ICE officers to do, how he feels about this, which is more unconscionable, him dropping the F-bomb or having a person who lives in his city killed by federal agents no one asked for? The mayor didn’t ask for them. The governor didn’t ask for them. BENNETT: And, David, video of the shooting spread almost instantly. And just as quickly, the White House and DHS moved to label it an act of domestic terrorism, that the ICE agent, they said, was acting in self-defense. What does this whole thing reveal about how narratives are being set before investigations are even complete? DAVID BROOKS, NEW YORK TIMES: Yes, let me talk first about the public debate, and then about the event, which Jonathan was talking about. In 1951, there was a brutal football game between Princeton and Dartmouth. And after the game, researchers sent the Princeton kids and the Dartmouth kids film, the exact same film video of the game. And the Princeton kids said, look, this film proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Dartmouth kids did twice as many penalties. And the Dartmouth kids said, this film proves without a shadow of a doubt that the Princeton kids did all the penalties. And so they were looking at the same video. And it’s a very famous social science experiment. And I watched it play out in real time this week, because every single Trump person on my feed, my social media feeds was saying, this proves he shot her with just cause. And every single anti-Trump person on my feed said it was murder. I did not see one exception. And so I think what this tells us is the norm, which is essential to democracy, of putting the truth above your party and your team, that norm is eviscerated, at least on social media, hopefully not in real life. As to the events of what actually happened, I’m not going to render a judgment on what happened, because we’re going to have an investigation. I will leave it to them. And I hope Minnesota has full information to do the investigation. But what Jonathan said is absolutely correct., that the atmosphere that ICE has created is incendiary, that people who have power and have guns are supposed to exercise restraint, and they are doing the opposite. And the crust of civilization is thin. And once people with guns and with power began acting like thugs, well, then things are going to spiral. And that’s what we have seen. BENNETT: Jonathan, to David’s point about the public debate, it does feel like we live in this moment where this idea of seeing is believing has been replaced by what you believe now determines what you see. CAPEHART: I mean, sure, but, I mean, maybe I come at this from the vantage point of being an African American man who, for decades, people talked about racial profiling by police officers, and there was no video to prove it. And so we were deemed reactionary. We were deemed taking things too seriously, being hyperbolic, until the person videoed Rodney King getting beaten up in Los Angeles. And even with that, people came at it with their various perspectives. Five years ago in Minneapolis, we saw Derek Chauvin with his knee on the neck of George Floyd for 9.5 minutes. Imagine if the young woman who videoed — who recorded that with her phone, if that video had not been there what the narrative would have been, the narrative that they tried to spin, even in the face of that video. We now have a new video out of Minneapolis, out of Minnesota where — I mean, I take your point, David, depending on your political perspective, you see what you want to see, but you’re seeing. And I think that the idea that the secretary of homeland security, the vice president of the United States, and the president of the United States are out there saying things that, whether — you have got eyes. You just match the video up against what they’re saying. Put aside your politics. There is — they are not trying to push that car out of the snow. It’s a lie. And so I say all of that to say, I applaud people who are going out into their communities, seeing what’s happening, and pulling out their phones and recording it. As we have seen, multiple people were recording what happened to Renee Good. And good for them, good for Minneapolis, good for Minnesota, but also good for America, because, as long as people are bearing witness to this with their phones and putting out a record, then the administration from the president on down cannot lie, baldly lie, to the American people without there being video evidence that they are lying.

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