Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told the BBC in an interview this week that she doesn’t give President Trump “credit” for getting European countries to increase defense spending to NATO levels. “This is not just a rhetorical push from the American president. This is the cold reality that here in the 21st century we are dealing with a dictator who wants to dominate and control,” she said. “I think the real credit for that goes to Vladimir Putin.”

JESSICA PARKER, BBC: You’ve just come from the Munich Security Conference. A lot of people are talking about the idea of a new world order. I’m interested in your thoughts on transatlantic relations between Europe and the United States. Do you think they have permanently shifted? HILLARY CLINTON: Time will tell whether we are going to support the rule of law, support the strong alliances that were forged through and after World War II, create an area of peace and security in the transatlantic or not. As I said in Munich, I think that comes down to whether or not the people in America turn out Donald Trump and Republicans who are more concerned about Putin than they are about democracy, and whether Europe stands against efforts to undermine ties amongst European nations in favor of the rule of law and against Putin. I’m hoping the answers are the right answers. I’m hoping people in Europe and people in the United States will stand up for universal values that have protected our peace and security for more than 80 years. PARKER: Would you still say the United States is the leader of the free world? CLINTON: It appears that Donald Trump wants to be the leader – but not necessarily of a free world. He is very enamored of Vladimir Putin, who is a dictator, brutal. PARKER: He has criticized him at times. CLINTON: Donald Trump has never criticized Putin. You can go back and look. Many of us have done it, looking for one moment. What do we now hear? That he and Putin want to profit off the death and misery of the Ukrainian people. Is that a leader? If you count it in terms of military power, we are still the leader. But are we the leader in values? In bringing people together? In creating hope and opportunity? I think that’s an open question. PARKER: Donald Trump’s pressure has led Europe to spend more on defense, ncluding here in German, which is something the Americans have wanted for a long time. Would you count that as a success? CLINTON: Well, there was a lot of pressure on the Europeans from previous presidents and including in Trump’s first term, and I think the real credit for that goes to Vladimir Putin. I think Vladimir Putin’s aggressive behavior starting with Georgia, Crimea, and then the full scale invasion of Ukraine has woken up the Europeans unlike anything anybody else could ever tell them. Obviously, Trump has, you know, pushed that, but it’s the Europeans who have finally realized that Vladimir Putin is attempting to undermine European security and left to his own devices, I believe, along with many other security experts will threaten the independence of the Baltic states, Poland, and elsewhere. So this is not just rhetorical push from the American president. This is the cold reality that here in the 21st century we are dealing with a dictator who wants to dominate and control.

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