Author Jan Jekielek appeared on RAV’s “Get Real” with host and RealClear Media publisher David DesRosiers and talked about China’s organ harvesting industry.

DAVID DESROSIERS, REALCLEAR MEDIA PUBLISHER: Jan is an award-winning journalist, New York Times best-selling author, and filmmaker with over 20 years at the Epoch Times, where he serves as senior editor and host of the show American Thought Leaders, which I have never been on. Jan is the author of the newly released Killed to Order, China’s Organ Harvesting Industry and the True Nature of America’s Biggest Adversary, which carries a blurb by the stable genius here. Americans and Europeans suffer from a fatal conceit, Jan. We all have a tendency of thinking that the other thinks like we do, right? I think we’re about the same age. We could all remember Prince’s song, I Hope the Russians Love Their Children Too. You know, I believe the purpose of your book, you know, China, Russia, Venezuela, they don’t love their children the same way that we do. But I think you’ve proven in this book that, you know, really China is of a different sport in its relationship to its own citizens. And, you know, you can judge a country by how it treats its own, and after reading your book, I’m very terrified for them and what it has in store for the rest of us. Could you explain the thesis of your book for us? JAN JEKIELEK, AUTHOR: 100%. I mean, there’s really two core parts. And by the way, I do have to have you on American Thought Leaders one of these days. DESROSIERS: Thank you. JEKIELEK: For the record, okay? But, you know, there’s two parts. One is there is this horrible killed to order, extreme form of organ trafficking, large-scale killing of prisoners of conscience for organs, and just how that works and what it is, and that it’s real. That’s been one of the hardest things to establish for the longest period of time, even though we’ve known about it for 20 years. But that second part of the thesis, and in a way it’s even more important, is how this whole horrible institution is a window into the mind of the Chinese Communist Party and how it operates. Because us getting this wrong for so many decades has cost us so much blood and treasure. And actually, arguably, we built the world’s biggest dictatorship. I mean, I think America mostly, but other Western countries, including my own Canada. So these are the two elements we’re talking about here. DESROSIERS: Now, could you get to the soul of your book? Because that’s what I think, you know, the latter half of your title, it’s like, you know, I just really think that this is a different order of regime. It’s almost like this is what, you know, a postmodern communist, you know, commercial regime would, and how they would approach, you know, the human body. And particularly the sources from which they actually draw from, I wish you would comment on as well. JEKIELEK: Well, in order to get killed to order, you have to have a very specific scenario, okay? With this particular type of extreme organ trafficking, you have to have a state actor, which is the Chinese Communist Party. It can only happen in this sort of situation. You have to be able to dehumanize a large group of people, which the Communist Party has been expert at over decades, creating black classes, so to speak. And you have to be able to incarcerate a massive group of people. So all of these things have to fit. The reason I’m mentioning this is it explains to you the type of thinking that went into this, right? There was, isolated prior to 1999, where the Chinese Communist Party started to persecute Falun Gong practitioners, okay? This was people that were practicing truthfulness, compassion, and tolerance. They were a very grassroots, bottom-up movement, okay, of a spiritual discipline to kind of no hierarchy, no worship, but a deep connection, you know, basically with the divine. And I think practitioners would say. And so 70 to 100 million people were doing this by the end of the 90s in communist China. The regime decided to crush it because, I guess, it wasn’t sufficiently communist. And there’s a lot of discussion around why exactly. But they did. And in that process, they dehumanized these people using their tried-and-tested methods, kind of the same talking points from 1930s Germany, frankly, and, like, similar idea. And then, when these people didn’t re-educate very easily, when they were trying to kind of break them and get them to genuflect at the altar of the Communist Party, they wouldn’t have it, and they incarcerated a million of them. And that’s what created the scenario, right, where someone, and this was one of our initial whistleblowers, could actually come, go to China. It was a transplant surgeon who had a patient who went to China and got a new heart in two weeks. Wow. Okay, one, that catastrophic accident that has to happen in an ethical society is kind of manufactured, right? They’re actually killing someone. Number two, you’re doing it in two weeks, and this kind of the rare scenario where all the blood matching, tissue typing, all of that, that typically happens in an ethical situation, that’s accomplished because they’ve done it to a massive group of people already incarcerated prisoners of conscience, which can then be killed to order, basically. Grabbed, killed to order, and used, and have been, basically, since the early 2000s to this day. So that’s, the reason I’m mentioning this, right, is it’s just, it’s hard to fathom. It’s been the hardest thing that’s just been able to explain to people. But it also, imagine the thought, the way of thinking that actually allowed for something like this to be created in the first place. And I actually argue, I hope convincingly, that it’s actually a feature, not a bug, right? The moment that you have the technology to be able to do this, you would actually expect a totalitarian communist regime to actually do something like this.

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