Former MSNBC host Chris Matthews on Wednesday’s “Morning Joe” said Democrats are falling into a trap by denying the rising crime in Washington, D.C. “Trump looks at the city visually like a real estate agent,” Matthews told co-host Mika Brzezinski. “He wants to beautify the city like he’s doing at the White House with that ridiculous ballroom he’s putting in and getting rid of the Rose Garden. That’s Trump work. But I think it shows strength. I agree with you. I think this is a strength move against the big cities who are in a difficult situation on crime.” “The murder rate, you can’t keep saying violent crime is down, but the murder rate is up,” Matthews continued. “To the average person, the murder rate is about life and death. You don’t brag about a rising murder rate. And the Democrats are, I agree with you, Mika, they’re falling into the trap of defending what’s indefensible.”

MIKA BRZEZINSKI, MSNBC HOST: I want to ask you, not just your take about this move by President Trump, what you feel about it, but also how Democrats should be responding. What do you think the politics of this is? I think it’s a political win for Trump, and I think that the Democrats need to go beyond saying no, look at the data, crime is going down. I feel that is exactly the wrong response politically, even if it’s true, because the problems that D.C. is facing, whether the data shows it’s going up or down, is homelessness, crime, rats, poverty, disparity in wealth, all the systemic problems that cities are facing. And I’m wondering if Democrats need to go beyond the data and come up with a real answer to these problems. What do you think in terms of this on the political level? Do you think this is a win for Trump? How do you think Democrats are responding? CHRIS MATTHEWS: Well, there’s a couple things here. I think he’s showing strength, which is always a big thing with him. I want to go back to what you just said initially about me. I was a Capitol policeman just for three months. It was a patronage job. I later became a legislative assistant to a senator. But I got to tell you, when he has a guy in the Justice Department now who said, kill the cops, kill the cops during the January 6th event, I’ll never forget that, that a president of the United States says no, he pardoned the people that committed crimes that day and had their pictures taken so you have hard evidence of their criminality. And he let them go. He pardoned them. And then he put this guy who says kill the cops in the Justice Department. It’s awful. It’s awful. Is he for the government or against the government? That’s a good question. Now in terms of D.C., I’ve chosen to live my life here. I love D.C. I think it’s a beautiful city. When I go to work, when I do morning yoga, coming in early in the morning, I got to tell you it’s a beautiful city. Jefferson Memorial, the Washington Monument, the Lincoln Memorial. You come up to Washington Mall, it’s beautiful. Now there are some crimes that are evident and are iconic. If you come into this city, you’re going to see pup tents in DuPont Circle. Now they don’t commit crimes necessarily, but they’re there. Signs of homelessness which is not being treated. You see graffiti, which drives me crazy because it’s right on the most beautiful places, the bridges and all, covered in graffiti. And they have to paint it over to cover it up. They don’t really get rid of it, it’s still there. And so I think the iconic, the look of a suburbanite, I think this is about the suburbs and the rural areas against the big cities. I think Trump knows that people are afraid to go into big cities, to go to a Phillies game. They talk about it. They don’t want to go downtown. They don’t want to, they don’t trust the situation. So politically, I think this strengthens his red power in the rural parts of Pennsylvania and Scranton and Bethlehem and Allentown. Those people are going to look at this headline and say, it’s about time somebody is doing something about D.C. And Philly with Krasner as our D.A. You need a tougher D.A. You just do to put people in jail. But the crime is inevitably committed by working people. And in D.C., working people are black, African-American. They’re the ones getting hit by crime, not the suburbanites and not the tourists and not the people that just look at the city. Trump looks at the city visually like a real estate agent. He wants to beautify the city like he’s doing at the White House with that ridiculous ballroom he’s putting in and getting rid of the Rose Garden. That’s Trump work. But I think it shows strength. I agree with you. I think this is a strength move against the big cities who are in a difficult situation on crime. And the murder rate, you can’t keep saying violent crime is down, but the murder rate is up. To the average person, the murder rate is about life and death. You don’t brag about a rising murder rate. And the Democrats are, I agree with you, Mika, they’re falling into the trap of defending what’s indefensible. MIKA BRZEZINSKI: It’s a trap. Yes. It’s a trap.

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