FIRING LINE: Rep. Jim Clyburn (D-S.C.) discusses the role of race in politics in America’s past and present, his warning for younger generations, and his new book about South Carolina’s first eight Black members of Congress.

MARGARET HOOVER, ‘FIRING LINE’ HOST: You say that the Redeemer Democrats are echoing the tactics of MAGA Republicans. REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): Absolutely. HOOVER: Tell me more about that. CLYBURN: Well, just look through all the stuff that they did. A guy named Witherspoon Gary, a general in the Confederate Army. HOOVER: Completely unrepentant, believed that Robert E. Lee should not have surrendered. CLYBURN: Absolutely. And he did everything he could. He, like a particular figure in the White House today, he overtook the entire mechanism. He wrote an edict giving instructions as to how they should conduct themselves. And one of the things he instructed them to do, always wear a red shirt. The red shirts. Today, red caps. He instructed them, rifle clubs, Ku Klux Klan, use violence. Proud Boys. Today. You can look at what’s happening today. If you want to know what all this is about, you can get a nice, concise understanding from this book. HOOVER: So are you saying these tactics echo the past? CLYBURN: Absolutely. In fact, I am convinced that whoever put January 6th together used a roadmap that came right out of this era. HOOVER: How far do you think the current MAGA Republican Party, because you say Proud Boys, which are different from run-of-the-mill MAGA. CLYBURN: Absolutely. HOOVER: How far do you think MAGA Republicans, and you even referenced Donald Trump as the leader of the MAGA Republicans. I mean, when you reference the echoes of history, how far do you think or are you warning that they’re willing to go? CLYBURN: All the way. HOOVER: What do you mean by that? What do you mean by all the way? Because you write at one point in the book, “the MAGA Republicans and their supporters who want to make America great again want to be remaking it in the image of the antebellum.” I just want to be clear. Are you saying you think they want to reinstate slavery? CLYBURN: No. They wish to get us back as close to slavery as they can possibly get us to without violating, because the Constitution says they can’t do it. HOOVER: Uh-huh. CLYBURN: Jim Crow? Yes. HOOVER: So you think they would reinstitute Jim Crow? CLYBURN: Absolutely. And I think the Supreme Court is well on their way to doing that. Remember, all of this started with a Supreme Court decision called Dred Scott. That’s what defined and laid the foundation for all of this stuff. And then we got another case called Plessy v. Ferguson that’s established separate and equal. HOOVER: Well, and of course, the Supreme Court, during Reconstruction, overturned the Civil Rights Act. CLYBURN: Yes. The Supreme Court did. The Civil Rights Act was overturned by the United States Supreme Court. And what has just happened with the 1965 Voting Rights Act, the first, they’re doing it a little more sophisticated, but they’re doing that. This Supreme Court is overturning the Voting Rights Act. They are now saying it is legal to use political results to redistrict. And that is eliminating more and more African Americans from the political process. HOOVER: To be really clear, your view is the MAGA Republicans are explicitly racist and want to turn the country back towards a time that approaches Jim Crow, if not achieving it. CLYBURN: I don’t know that I would call all MAGA Republicans that. I’m very circumspect about using the term. They are racist. I don’t put that label on any one person, but I know what the word means. It’s just sitting there in the dictionary for anybody to understand it. They are white supremacists. And there are people who are supporters of this president who admit to me that they are white supremacists. I’ve had people who support this president tell me that they thought that slavery was a good thing. And really, for us to deny that this exists, I don’t know why we would do that. HOOVER: You’ve had people tell you, who support this president, that they thought slavery was a good thing. CLYBURN: Absolutely. Right to my teeth. HOOVER: Constituents of yours? CLYBURN: Absolutely. In my congressional district. HOOVER: What’s that like? CLYBURN: Sometimes I keep things to myself.

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