McFaul: Mistake To Say “There’s A Scandal So Ukraine Can’t Keep Fighting”
Former U.S. Ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul said that a major corruption scandal inside Zelensky’s government should not force the end of U.S. support for Ukraine, Monday on MS-NOW’s “Morning Joe.” The AP reports that a financial corruption scheme is the “greatest threat” to the Ukrainian government since Russia’s invasion: A Corruption Scandal Pressures Ukraine’s Zelensky to Show Greater Accountability
MICHAEL MCFAUL, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA: The theory has always been with President Trump and his aides that we can convince Putin to change his positions. And I’ve never believed that that was possible. I think instead you have to change Putin’s capabilities to pursue his positions. If he can still keep advancing on the battlefield, I think he’s going to keep fighting until he takes all of Donbas at a minimum. But if he can’t keep fighting, if the Ukrainian army has the means to stop him, then that would create the permissive conditions for an actual negotiation. So what we have so far is we just have carrots for Putin. We just say, “What do you want, Mr. President?” And Witkoff comes back with the list, and then we put them into a document. They have to have coercion as well. And this is a lesson that I think anybody can learn from other effective diplomatic efforts. You have to have a pressure track with an engagement track. And so far we’ve just pursued an engagement track with Moscow. And so far that has not worked. JOE SCARBOROUGH: So, help me out here, because I’ve talked to negotiators. They certainly have brought up the weaknesses that the Ukrainians are facing. One, the corruption scandal. Two, fighting’s not going well. Three, you look at the number of Ukrainians that have left the country. Four, you look at the average age of the fighters. Obviously, Ukraine is on their back foot with Russia, and it’s hard to get a good answer in the West, as it always was, even before, you know, the Wall fell. But how weakened is Russia when you look at just the horrible state of their economy? You look at oil down to about $ 60 a barrel. They, too, have to be on their back foot, right? MICHAEL MCFAUL: Yes. I think the analytic mistake many in the West and some in the Trump administration make is that they think Ukraine is weak for all the reasons you just listed, but they forget that Russia’s weak. Putin also is just slaughtering people, his own citizens, every single day. You know, they’re the largest country in the world, by the way. They don’t need more territory. They need more people. At some point, I hope he understands that. The economy is not in good shape. Now, he is the leader of a dictatorship, so the way for society to pressure him to change is a lot different than in Ukraine. But I think this is just a big mistake that people make: “Well, there’s a scandal, and so Ukraine can’t keep fighting.” That is not the way I read it. This scandal is bad. These guys are close to Zelensky. It is extremely unfortunate. I think, you know, what could be worse than stealing from your government during a time of war? But the Ukrainians I talk to also say that doesn’t mean we’re just going to capitulate to Putin. And I think we’ve got to be able to separate those two ideas out. Russia is not going to capture Kyiv in the next coming years. I want to emphasize that: years. So the idea that all the momentum is on Russia’s side, I just think, is analytically incorrect.
