MSNBC’s Katy Tur hosts former Ohio Gov. John Kasich, Christine Romans, and David Graham from The Atlantic to discuss Graham’s recent article: “Trump’s Right-Wing Socialism”

KATY TUR, MSNBC: Here’s a question: is President Trump a socialist? So far in his second term, he has approved a U.S. ship sale to China in exchange for 15% of profits, signed off on the sale of U.S. Steel in return for a government golden share, strong-armed law firms into providing free services to his administration, told companies like Walmart to “eat the costs” of tariffs, secured a 10% stake in Intel just the other day. And now today, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick said the Pentagon is weighing equity stakes in defense contractors. As my guest writes, this is the nightmare right-wing politicians have been warning about for a century. The era of small government is over. Joining us now: former Republican governor of Ohio and MSNBC political analyst John Kasich. Christine Romans and David Graham are still with us. This is David’s piece. He is the author behind it. David, it would not have been predictable in years past to say that the era of big government-getting involved in private business, getting involved in every aspect financially of daily life-would have come from somebody with an R in front of their name. DAVID GRAHAM, THE ATLANTIC: That’s right. I’m not sure it even would have been predictable last year. We’ve spent the last 15 to 20 years with prominent Republicans and conservatives warning that Barack Obama was a socialist. Donald Trump said that Kamala Harris was a communist. They’ve argued against state intrusion into things, and what we see now is the most intrusive federal government since Franklin Roosevelt, probably-really entering into all areas of American life. They’re aggressively trampling on states’ rights. They’re getting into business with private companies. They’re telling private institutions how to conduct their business. It’s really a remarkably sprawling state. KATY TUR: But this isn’t a left-wing version of socialism. This is a right-wing version of socialism. What’s the difference, David? DAVID GRAHAM: Well, I think what we see in common is state control. It’s like a directed economy. What we see different are the kinds of proposals that they’re following. We don’t see a Trump administration that wants to build social services, for example, or expand the social safety net. It’s the opposite. In fact, the payroll of the government is dropping. But we do see them wanting to assert control over private business, assert control over private institutions. And that’s to achieve the policy ends of the Trump administration. It’s to combat wokeness. It’s to go after civil rights regulations. It’s to go after putative crime in Democratic-run cities and states, for example. KATY TUR: There’s also this-and I don’t think, Governor Kasich, you would have predicted this, although there was some overlap in 2016, certainly. But Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump see eye to eye. This is from Punchbowl: I’m glad the Trump administration is in agreement with the amendment I offered three years ago to the CHIPS Act. No taxpayer should be providing billions of dollars in corporate welfare to large, profitable corporations like Intel without getting anything in return. So Bernie Sanders is saying: thanks for taking my idea, Donald Trump.

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