After a visit to the White House on Wednesday, NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte praised President Trump’s decision to attack Iran, saying the free world is “absolutely” safer than it would have been otherwise. “NATO allies are with him when it comes to the aims of taking out-as I said-degrading the nuclear and the ballistic missile capacity of the Iranians,” Rutte said. “We ran the risk that this would lead to a North Korea moment.” “It is great to try to negotiate, but with North Korea it took too long-and then North Korea had nuclear weapons, and you can’t negotiate any longer,” he said. “Let’s not be naive.” CNN’s Jake Tapper asked: “Do you agree that NATO countries-some of them-were tested and failed?” “Some of them, yes,” said Rutte. “But a large majority of European countries-and that’s what we discussed today-have done what they promised before in a case like this, because they know that when it comes to NATO, it’s there to protect the United States.” “The U.S. needs to secure the Atlantic, secure the Arctic, and secure Europe to stay safe here in the U.S. mainland,” Rutte said. “But it is also there to make sure that, of course, Europe is safe-and to be this platform of power projection for the United States.” “So what the U.S. did with Iran-and they could do because so many European countries lived up to those commitments-not all of them, and I totally understand his disappointment about that-but it is therefore a nuanced picture.”

JAKE TAPPER: On a scale of 1 to 10-1 being not worried at all, 10 being terrified-where do you leave Washington thinking President Trump… your opinion of President Trump wanting to leave NATO? Are you a 1, not worried at all, or a 10, really worried Trump is going to pull out of NATO? MARK RUTTE: Well, I’m not going to get into answering that question. JAKE TAPPER: I’m just trying- MARK RUTTE: I understand that. But what I felt today-this was a meeting between friends, because we like each other. I really admire his leadership, and he knows what he did in The Hague last year at a NATO summit has been crucial. And NATO allies are with him when it comes to the aims of taking out-as I said-degrading the nuclear and the ballistic missile capacity of the Iranians. JAKE TAPPER: Yeah, but Europeans wanted to do it through diplomatic means. MARK RUTTE: Yeah, I know-but we run the risk that this would lead to a North Korea moment, where you talk so long that at a certain moment it’s beyond the point where you can still get this done, because then they would get their hands on nuclear capability. And that is basically a big risk for Europe. It is existential for Israel. It is existential for the Middle East. So the whole world is safer by this president degrading those capabilities. But there are many who acknowledge-and they understand-that continuing to talk to get this done would have brought us potentially past that moment where we can still deal with it. JAKE TAPPER: So you talked about the statement of NATO allied countries about the Strait of Hormuz, about trying to figure out a way forward. Here is the White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt when asked about the joint statement from NATO governments about the Strait of Hormuz. Here’s what she had to say. I have a direct quote from the president of the United States on NATO, and I will share it with all of you: ‘They were tested, and they failed.’ Do you agree that NATO countries-some of them-were tested and failed? MARK RUTTE: Some of them, yes. But a large majority of European countries-and that’s what we discussed today-have done what they promised before in a case like this, because they know that when it comes to NATO, it’s there to protect the United States. Because the U.S. needs to secure the Atlantic, secure the Arctic, and secure Europe to stay safe here in the U.S. mainland. But it is also there to make sure that, of course, Europe is safe-and to be this platform of power projection for the United States. So what the U.S. did with Iran-and they could do because so many European countries lived up to those commitments-not all of them, and I totally understand his disappointment about that-but it is therefore a nuanced picture. It is not just black or white. JAKE TAPPER: How many NATO allied countries-a lot or a little-thought that the war that President Trump and Israel waged against Iran was illegal? Was that a prevalent view? MARK RUTTE: No, no, no, no-because NATO has always taken the position that degrading these capabilities-nuclear and ballistic missiles-is crucial, and that Iran can never get its hands on those two capabilities. There is widespread support for that point of view. JAKE TAPPER: I’ve also heard the argument that NATO countries weren’t involved because NATO is a defensive organization, and this was an offensive war-a war by choice. Obviously, a nuclear Iran is not acceptable to NATO, but that the president didn’t have to wage this war at that moment. Is that part of this calculus at all? MARK RUTTE: Yes, but you cannot defend yourself without being lethal. And look at NATO-and the Germans now spending, in 2029, $ 153 billion, twice as much as in 2021. They will spend the same as the French and the British combined. The whole of NATO is now at 2%. Last year, NATO spent 20% more. Canada and the European NATO allies-thanks to President Trump pushing for this, Trump 45 but also Trump 47 at The Hague summit-and then we agreed collectively to get to this 5% of defense spending. Without him, we would never have gotten there. JAKE TAPPER: So the Strait of Hormuz-obviously that’s been a real crisis for so many in Europe. I’ve read that in Italy they even have school by Zoom because of the gas crisis right now, almost like the COVID era. Other European countries have been hit hard. Is the Strait of Hormuz open, as far as you can tell? MARK RUTTE: Well, of course we have to see over the next couple of days what happens. I don’t have the intelligence at my fingertips to give you that answer. But I think over the next couple of days we will know. And it is absolutely true that for the Europeans-but also for Asia-Japan, Korea, Australia, Thailand, the Philippines-they get huge volumes of oil and gas through the Strait of Hormuz. For them, it is crucial. And this is why the British prime minister brought together this coalition-making sure that we can answer the question of what, where, and when when it comes to the Strait of Hormuz, so we can act collectively. JAKE TAPPER: When President Trump threatened to kill the entire Iranian civilization, did that bother you at all as a diplomat? MARK RUTTE: Well, you know what I always say-when it comes to what leaders are saying, I’m not commenting on everything. What I want you to know is that I support the president, and I know large parts of Europe do, when it comes to taking out Iran’s capacity to cause chaos in the region, to Europe, to the whole world. They are one of the main enablers of Russia’s war efforts in Ukraine-we all know this, the drones. It is an existential threat to Israel if they would get their hands on nuclear capability. It is great to try to negotiate it, but we also always knew that with North Korea it took too long-and then North Korea had nuclear weapons, and you cannot negotiate any longer once they have that power. JAKE TAPPER: Is the world safer today than it was before the war started? MARK RUTTE: Absolutely. Because-and this is thanks to President Trump’s leadership-degrading these capabilities is really, really very important for your and my safety here in the U.S., in Europe, in the Middle East. JAKE TAPPER: Are you worried at all about the increased ties between Iran and China that seem to have been strengthened during this period? MARK RUTTE: Well, let’s not be naive. We know these ties were there. When it comes to the war in Ukraine, for example-Russia, North Korea, Belarus, China, Iran-they are working together. We see that these theaters-the Pacific, the Middle East, and NATO-so Europe and the transatlantic-are getting more and more interconnected. You cannot look at this from one angle and say it’s totally separate from the rest. This is all influencing each other. It is Russia exporting missile technology to North Korea, giving money to the Iranians in return for drone technology-which the Iranians then use to pay for their proxies in the Middle East to create the chaos we are seeing there.

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