The panelists at RCP’s third annual Samizdat Prize Gala debated whether Don Lemon’s recent arrest during an anti-ICE protest at a Minnesota church is comparable to Graham Linehan’s arrest as a free speech/journalism case.

TOM BEVAN: Graham, let me go back to you and ask about these stories coming out of Europe – the UK in particular – these horrifying reports about people being arrested, police showing up at people’s homes based on what they’ve posted on Facebook. How did that happen? I know the UK doesn’t have a First Amendment, but how did free speech get eroded so quickly? GRAHAM LINEHAN: I think it’s very much to do with the cowardice of Keir Starmer. He came into power saying he would end the Tory culture wars, but instead he hid from them. So we had situations like Sandy Peggie and the Darlington nurses having to go to court to explain that they didn’t want to get undressed in front of a male. These problems pile up with ordinary people facing them at ground level. They have no support from people higher up, who are all determined to say the right thing. TOM BEVAN: But surely it started before Starmer. GRAHAM LINEHAN: Yes, absolutely. The problems started before Starmer. He’s just too weak to take care of them. The big problem with the UK is that we have two extraordinary issues that no one is willing to face seriously: immigration and the gender issue. No one is able or willing to take them on. They’re too used to dismissing their opponents as bigots. That’s led to police actually taking those claims seriously. It’s a combination of things, but we’ve had a succession of weak leaders – of whom Starmer is the weakest. ALAN DERSHOWITZ: Your arrest is very interesting because some might say it was important for supporting the First Amendment. But I’m going to make the point that so was Don Lemon’s. Don Lemon made the best career move of his life by getting arrested. It helped him, but I also think it helped promote the cause of journalism. Now, he may have gone beyond journalism. He may have blocked entrances or done things that don’t qualify as journalism. But to the extent that there are doubts, they should always be resolved in favor of the First Amendment and journalism – just as they should have been resolved in your case. CARL CANNON: I want to ask Andrew a question, but before I do, I want to make an observation. I hesitate to disagree with David DesRosiers and Alan Dershowitz on the same night, but the First Amendment also protects freedom of religion. I think the people who interrupted that service were violating the First Amendment. Andrew, what do you think about that point? ANDREW KOLVET: Agreed. Listen, there’s video of Don Lemon kissing the lead organizer on the cheek, glowingly thanking her for her service. There was also a Temple student who was charged and admitted coordinating with Lemon beforehand to act as a hype man for the protest. He was not just a journalist – he was there with a specific role, and that was to hype up an illegal protest — “mostly peaceful.” You storm into a church and make little kids cry during a Sunday service – how dare he? Where is his decency? But I do agree with Professor Dershowitz that it was the best career move of his life. ALAN DERSHOWITZ: Remember, this goes beyond Don Lemon. Israel was accused of killing journalists, and more than half of the journalists they were accused of killing were Hamas terrorists wearing journalists’ shirts to protect themselves. The line between real journalists and people using journalism as an excuse is a hard one. My only point is: when there are doubts, they should be resolved in favor of the First Amendment. ANDREW KOLVET: I agree with you. But there are two First Amendment rights involved here, and it’s hard to resolve doubts both ways in favor of the First Amendment. This is going to be a complicated case. ALAN DERSHOWITZ: Oliver Wendell Holmes once said the job of lawyers is to predict. I’m going to predict Lemon will not be convicted. That’s my prediction.