In an interview on “The Katie Halper Show,” Ret. Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, former chief of staff to then-Secretary of Defense Colin Powell, warned that President Trump fears Israel could turn to nuclear weapons if the United States exits the conflict with Iran. “If [Iran] strike[s] [oil refineries], we’re going into global depression, not just recession,” Wilkerson said. “We’re going into global depression. There are going to be some countries that will benefit majorly from it, like Russia, but not very many, and Russia eventually will feel the impact, too, because the world’s so globalized now.” “So this struggle of choice that Trump has decided to start, mostly, I think, because of Bibi Netanyahu, is going to turn into a real disaster if we’re not careful and if we don’t stop it very soon,” WIlkerson continued. I say he should declare victory and leave, and let Mr. Netanyahu stir in his own juices. Declare victory and leave. I mean, he’s good at doing that sort of thing, but I don’t think he’s going to do that, so I think we’re in trouble.” “So you’re saying Trump should just fake victory and then leave. He’s good at faking things. He’s good at lying. Now, why won’t he do that?” Halper asked. “I think it’s basically Israel, because he knows if he does that, Israel might be toast, and Israel might go to a nuclear weapon,” Wilkerson said. “So is it that they would be toast, and then they would, out of this position, use a nuke? That’s his fear, that they would use a nuke? Or is he fearful about what would happen to Israel?” she asked. “I think both,” Wilkerson said. “But I think mostly what he’s concerned about is that he doesn’t have any control over Netanyahu and his nuclear stockpile. Same thing that happened in 1973, but you had Moscow and Washington weighing in with Golda Meir, you had Henry Kissinger orchestrating things, and you had us telling the Israelis, no, no, no, both Moscow and Washington. And they happened to get a position on the Egyptian Third Army that meant they didn’t have to use the nuclear weapon.”

KATIE HALPER, HOST: So I’m going to start the show. Our, the second half is wonder, is going to be wonderful. It’s going to be mixed emotions. It’s going to be about how the U.S. blockade against Cuba is killing people, but also how the fearless and incredibly devoted doctors in Cuba are overcoming incredible odds to manage to actually save people in ways that the doctors in the West would just not be able to do. And I will be talking to Uriel Ramirez, who is a doctor who studied in Cuba. And I will be talking to Ed Augustin, who is based in Cuba and has an amazing front page on the New York Times report about the impact of the blockade on hospitals. And I’m sure he got that New York Times front page article on the front page because he got that preemptive Katie Halper show bump. I like to think that CBP and everyone was all up in my internets and messages, and they probably thought that I saw that I was corresponding with Ed and they thought it’d be a good idea because he was such a big deal that they would put him on the front page of the New York Times. At least that’s the way I see it. And I’m sticking. That’s my story. I’m sticking to it. So without further ado, so thrilled to be bringing back onto the show two faves. We are going to be speaking to Lawrence Wilkerson, a retired U.S. Army colonel and former chief of staff to United States Secretary of State Colin Powell. He’s an anti-war critic of U.S. foreign policy and a member of veteran intelligence professionals for sanity. Also coming back onto the show is Jose Luis Granados Ceja, who is a writer and photo journalist based in Mexico City. He has a great podcast called the Soberania podcast, and he also has been doing great coverage for Dropsite. So welcome, Colonel Wilkerson and welcome, Jose Luis. COL. LAWRENCE WILKERSON, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO SECRETARY OF DEFENSE COLIN POWELL: Good to be with you, Katie. HALPER: Thanks for coming so much. JOSE LUIS GRANADOS CEJA, PHOTOJOURNALIST: Your Spanish pronunciation is incredible. It must be the Cuba effect. HALPER: It is. It’s running off. It’s rubbing off on me. Yeah, I got Havana syndrome and then I got the Cuba accent. Although if it were Cuban accent, it would be very hard to understand for people who aren’t Cuban, I think. So I’m there’s so much to be talking about. And I really do feel honored to have you two on as well as our guests later on in the show because you all have such important perspectives. Jose Luis, you’re based in Mexico. Colonel Wilkerson, you are someone who has been involved in the military and the government at very high ranking positions. And so your insights are, I would say, extremely important right now, especially because you, Jose Luis, are living in one of the places that is, I would say, playing a major role in what we’re seeing. We talk a lot about Russia, Iran, China, Israel, Palestine, but we also want to make sure that we cover South America, Latin America, really, because that is an important part of what we’re seeing. And I guess I want to start off with you, though, Colonel Wilkerson, if you could just situate us in where you think we are right now on the world stage. I mean, it’s a bit of an overwhelming question, but what do you think the most important things that are happening right now all around the world that we really need to focus on the most for all of our safety? WILKERSON: Number one, we need to focus on what this disastrous war of choice against Iran and really rapidly becoming against other people, too, by extension, if not cause, and what it’s going to do to us and what it’s going to do to the world. And let me just give you a very vivid example. The first tier targets that Iran struck were struck with brutal efficiency, exquisite intelligence, and almost incredible accuracy. So, for example, in Bahrain, they destroyed the largest refining facility in the Persian Gulf, completely destroyed it. I talked to all men today about what it would take to put it back together again. It’s going to be questionable whether they try to put it back together again, because it’s so difficult to do when it’s been destroyed so methodically and so thoroughly. They did that to other places. They knew about the Israeli, the Mossad, CIA, MI6 facility in Erbil, Kurdistan, for example. They had struck it a couple of times before just to let Israel know it was there. Well, they destroyed it this time, utterly destroyed it. They did so with enormous amount of caution in terms of civilian casualties and other things associated with it. They just struck the targets at Prince Sultan Air Base. They struck some of our most sophisticated aircraft and set them afire. That’s the first set of targets they have. There’s a second tier of targets, and that second tier is going to be everything that is associated with the world economy of significant importance, and they’re going to strike it with the same kind of lethality and the same kind of intelligence and accuracy. Take, for example, Ras Tanura, 550,000 barrel per day capacity oil facility in Saudi Arabia, or the other one. I forget the name right now. It’s about 7 million barrels per day. It’s 7% of the oil supply. It’s everything. It’s refineries, compounds. If they strike these things, we’re going into global depression, not just recession. We’re going into global depression. There are going to be some countries that will benefit majorly from it, like Russia, but not very many, and Russia eventually will feel the impact, too, because the world’s so globalized now. So this struggle of choice that Trump has decided to start, mostly, I think, because of Bibi Netanyahu, is going to turn into a real disaster if we’re not careful and if we don’t stop it very soon. I say he should declare victory and leave, and let Mr. Netanyahu stir in his own juices. Declare victory and leave. I mean, he’s good at doing that sort of thing, but I don’t think he’s going to do that, so I think we’re in trouble. HALPER: So you’re saying Trump should just fake victory and then leave. He’s good at faking things. He’s good at lying. Now, why won’t he do that? WILKERSON: I think it’s basically Israel, because he knows if he does that, Israel might be toast, and Israel might go to a nuclear weapon. HALPER: So is it that they would be toast, and then they would, out of this position, use a nuke? That’s his fear, that they would use a nuke? Or is he fearful about what would happen to Israel? WILKERSON: I think both, but I think mostly what he’s concerned about is that he doesn’t have any control over Netanyahu and his nuclear stockpile. Same thing that happened in 1973, but you had Moscow and Washington weighing in with Golda Meir, you had Henry Kissinger orchestrating things, and you had us telling the Israelis, no, no, no, both Moscow and Washington. And they happened to get a position on the Egyptian Third Army that meant they didn’t have to use the nuclear weapon. So it all went away in 1973. It’s not going to go away this time, I don’t think. HALPER: So if you were advising the president, not just the way you are right now through the But if you really had his ear, what would you tell him to do, given that Israel does have nuclear weapons that you yourself have said you think they’d be fine using? WILKERSON: I think he’s got to figure out a way to extricate himself from this, if he cares at all about his presidency, and if he cares at all about the country, both of which I’m not sure about. So I don’t know that there’s an incentive to do this. The more I listen to him, the more I think his megalomania has really conquered him. So, as I said, I think we’re in deep trouble. And unfortunately, I think much of the world is in deep trouble because this is going to have huge repercussions. And we’re not even talking about Ukraine and the ground hardening up and Russia mounting an onslaught on Odesa, now fueled with 160 to 170 million dollars a day more. They don’t have any pains with regard to funding their campaign in Ukraine, because they’re just rolling in dough now with the oil price. So it’s a very dangerous world. I don’t think Donald Trump understands what he started. HALPER: So let’s say, though, that you were, let’s say you were president. OK, what would you do? Is there anything that we can do to defang Israel? WILKERSON: I’m not sure. I don’t know what he said to Netanyahu in the past, and I don’t know how far he’s willing to go with Miriam Adelson and other of his backers who are quite critical to his reelection or staying in office and not being impeached and also the reelection of the Republican Party in the Congress. Hopefully not his reelection, but I don’t put that beyond the kin. So I don’t know. I don’t know how to I don’t know, wouldn’t know how to advise him. I would tell him if I were the chairman of the Joint Chiefs or the Secretary of Defense or the Secretary of State to him, none of whom he listens to. But if I had his ear, I would say you need to break this embrace with Netanyahu and you to make you need to make it very clear to him that he needs to stop. He needs to stop in Lebanon. He needs to stop in Syria. He needs to stop in Gaza. He needs to stop on the West Bank. And we need to sit down and do something about redeveloping some sort of peace plan. And as a solution, I don’t think the solution is two states anymore. But I do think there could be a democratic state in the Levant that was both Palestinian and Jew to start with, and then turned into a true democracy and entertain both populations with a manner of respect and dignity that a democracy should. And to hell with the power of the womb, to hell with all of that. We need a democratic state in the Levant or we need no state other than Palestine. HALPER: And and Jose, I will shift to you in a second. I just really want to get to this because I’m very curious. If you were president, let’s just say Colonel Wilkerson, would you be able to? I guess my question is, can anyone stop Israel? Let’s say you were totally committed. You didn’t care about Adelson. What could be done? How do we know that they wouldn’t just use nuclear weapons? If we stop, if the US stopped funding them today and stopped arming them today, would they then just use a nuke? WILKERSON: You could stop them quite simply. It wouldn’t be easy to orchestrate, but it’s a simple solution. The first thing you do is don’t drop the 82nd Ready Brigade on Iran, where it’s going to get slaughtered. Drop it on Dimona. And then tell the Israelis you are not using this for war. And oh, by the way, you know, the categories of munitions that you are two days supply, four days supply, six days supply, eight days supply. I’ve seen the chart. You know, those munitions that you are very, very short on and that are critical to your survival. I’ll stop them all tomorrow morning. Every one of them. Now let’s talk. Shut this down. Lebanon, Gaza, West Bank, all of it, shut it down. And then take yourself out of office.

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