Tucker Carlson debates a college student at a Turning Point USA event at Indiana University in Bloomington on Tuesday. Carlson asked the questioner, whom he had given 15 minutes of his time, why he wasn’t angrier at people like BlackRock CEO and co-founder Larry Fink and the rest of the oligarchy than at those who aren’t central to what is happening. “Why aren’t you protesting Larry Fink, is my question,” an indignant Carlson said. “That’s my real question. Why do you always attack the people who aren’t really central to what’s happening? Why does no one attack the oligarchs? I never get that. Call me a left-winger. I don’t like them.” “You guys on the left are always like, we’re fighting the man and it’s like, no, you’re pissed at some talk show host,” Carlson said after a back-and-forth.

STUDENT: Hey, Tucker. So, I was just told that I was the last one to speak at this event, and in the spirit of what you said in respecting Charlie Kirk, I want to turn this last question more so into a discourse rather than a debate. [TUCKER CARLSON LAUGHS] Yeah, bear with me. I’m just using my phone. I’m sure you’ve seen the AI video Trump posted recently showing himself literally dumping poop on protesters representing the millions of real Americans, including veterans, teachers, parents exercising their rights. His team calls it satire, but I look at this and see everything converging. Everything’s become ironic, so nothing can be taken seriously. Each outrage has to be more extreme than the last. We’ve stopped seeing these people as actual human beings, and the whole media ecosystem, including left-wing media, right-wing media, Trump, and you at times, reward it because it drives engagement. You, Tucker, have shown that you can have empathy for individuals, but here we have millions of people being depicted as being deserving to be sh*t on. So, my question is, do you ever feel trapped in this system? Maybe you think it’s corrosive, but do you think incentives make it almost impossible to do anything else? Or is there a line where even within those incentives, you’d say, this has gone too far? TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I would, I’ll take your question seriously. Do I feel trapped in a system? I mean, there definitely have been times in the course of my long, you know, 30 years of doing this where I felt like I work at a network. You know, I always made a big show internally, if I’m going to say whatever I want, and if you don’t like it, fire me. But when they finally did fire me, well, I got fired for the third time, um, I realized that there is self-censorship that goes on. Like, there’s some topics you just don’t want to broach because you know that they’re too hot, your bosses don’t like them. And so I do think in some sense I was captive at the various channels I worked at, and I definitely went along with stuff that I feel bad about now, most significantly at the Iraq War, but I’m sure many others. And so, yes, I would say now, I mean, I don’t want to make it about me, but since you asked about me, I often get this, like, well, you’re in it for the money, or no, I’m really not, actually, at all. And no, I don’t have $ 50 million, but I also have no debt, and like, my kids are grown, and I’m not working for anybody. I really can say whatever I want, and I love that. I feel so blessed by that. So it’s not really a calculation. The problem that I have, and I did it to the French kid, is I get mad. I get annoyed, and I get snappy, and say things that are mean or cutting, or I don’t take the other person seriously. That is a lifelong tick of mine. It’s unattractive and immoral, and you just saw it on display. STUDENT: So I think it’s a dual responsibility for the speaker and the one who’s asking questions to keep a level of discourse so we don’t get so distracted by the quips and the snaps. CARLSON: I agree. That the French kid triggered me for some reason. I’m not quite sure why. Everyone hates the French. I don’t like the French — I don’t hate the French. I think they’re really an interesting people in a lot of ways. But anyway. STUDENT: What I wanted to address is, like, I admire that you’re being honest — CARLSON: I’m trying — STUDENT: — that a speaker, a college student on a campus was able to trigger you. But really, it’s like, we’re all getting triggered back and forth. CARLSON: Can I suggest one thing? I certainly think you can make the case, is it befitting a president to send out an AI video as the one you described, which, by the way, I haven’t actually seen, but I believe it. STUDENT: And its implications. CARLSON: Yeah, I mean, look, in general, I think it’s bad to treat people as groups. It’s bad to dehumanize them. Those are beliefs that grow from my faith, and I mean them. I’ve definitely done that a lot, but I’m not proud of it, and I would apologize for doing that. But I would say there is, like, and I really mean this, there is, like, kind of a bait and switch going on, and Trump has always been part of it, where this country, as young people especially, have these huge problems. This is, like, part of what always made me mad about identity politics. It was always like, fight amongst yourselves, go and have a race war while we steal from you. And I’m very fixated on this idea of housing. Like, kids just can’t buy houses. And I really feel, as someone who, without parental help, bought a house on a low salary at, like, 25 for nothing, and it was a crappy house, but it was a house. I was married. Like, that’s literally not achievable. You could not do that now. And why can’t you do that? Well, there are two real, there are many reasons, but the two big ones are immigration, supply and demand — STUDENT: Tucker, can I ask you? CARLSON: Why aren’t you protesting Larry Fink, is my question? That’s my real question. Why do you always attack the people who aren’t really central to what’s happening? Why does no one attack the oligarchs? I never get that. Call me a left-winger. I don’t like them. They’re bad. STUDENT: I know we’ve heard a lot about your favorite architectural styles and going off talking about other important issues in our respect that, but I do have one question that I would hope. CARLSON: Why don’t you address that question? Like, you guys on the left are always like, we’re fighting the man and it’s like, no, you’re pissed at some talk show host. STUDENT: Tucker, you’ve got a big platform, a big podium. It looks fantastic. It’s great. Is there anything that you could do tomorrow that would be a step toward breaking the cycle of divisive triggering mainstream media? CARLSON: Well, I like to think, and perhaps I’m flattering myself, that I do it every day. And I would guess that you’ve not watched anything I’ve done in the past couple of years. I would just imagine that. STUDENT: I’ve watched, well, I learned about you from, I was watching YouTube the other day, and there’s a video of you fly fishing in the Central Park from 2013. And that’s, I thought that was pretty nice. CARLSON: Okay. But I’m just saying, leaving aside my personal qualities, some of which are prima facie unattractive. Okay. I would never deny that. My imperfections are obvious and on display. But, I mean, I really have spent the last two years trying to, to the extent, the very limited extent I can, avert some new war. I’m really opposed to that. And I actually thought to myself, you know, I got fired. I don’t really, you know, I don’t know if I want to keep working. I’m going to keep working because I should. And what am I going to do with my life? You know, like when you get fired, you do have this cool opportunity to think, like, what should I be doing with my life? And I thought, I really, having covered the war on terror from the very first day, I don’t want more of that. And I’m going to devote all my energy to stopping, to the extent that I can. I’m not in charge of anything, but I’m going to make the case against that every freaking day. And I have. And I don’t know. I mean, I’m against the divisiveness. I totally agree with you. But I would also say that a lot of the divisiveness is designed to keep people from understanding that they have more in common than they think. STUDENT: I 100% agree. And the fact that you — CARLSON: And the race stuff, especially. STUDENT: — And that you recognize that. I believe that you could be in a position. CARLSON: Well, I think I am. And I think I’m doing that. And maybe, again, I’m flattering myself. You know, we don’t see ourselves clearly. And it’s totally possible that I’m, like, working toward evil and don’t know it. But I don’t believe that. I actually think I’m doing the right thing. I say prayers about it every day. And I do know from working for 20 years, having people call me a racist. And I always say, if I was a racist, I would just admit it. And I would. I’m kind of a sexist. I’m not a racist. Just kidding. But I was like, why are they calling me a racist? You could say, you know, you’ve gained 20 pounds. Or you’re obnoxious. Or you’re kind of nasty. All true. Why are they calling me a racist? I never got that. And then I realized they were calling me a racist so no one could hear on the other side that I actually agree on some issues. And they didn’t want anyone to hear that. And the issues specifically that I agree on is I think the tax code is totally immoral. I don’t think that people should be paying half the taxes for investing that other people are paying for working. I hate that. Because it’s not twice as virtuous to invest as it is to work for a wage. Sorry, I think that’s wrong. Is that a liberal position? I have no idea. But no liberal’s ever heard that because like, he’s a racist. Shut up. Or he’s divisive. Or he fly fishes in Central Park. Or who gives a shit? Like, actually, all of us are being played by the most powerful people in the world. That’s my view. And by the way, they’re not even politicians. My read from a lot of time, you know, in this world is that politicians have a lot less power than we imagine they do. And I think people are starting to figure that out. Like, they take orders. Almost all of them take orders. So the question is, who are they taking orders from? And who made those people God? Like, I didn’t vote for them. And why is nobody protesting them? It’s always some poor ICE agent who’s just doing his job or some cop. The problem is white cops. What? Guys who make $ 50,000 a year? And the left had, like, literally nation-stopping violent protests for an entire summer because cops were white. It’s like, I don’t think we’re going after the real criminals here. And the real criminals are people who are turning single-family homes into rental properties. They are people who opened the borders and made it too crowded for your kids to have a job or buy a house. Why do those people completely escape any scrutiny, much less punishment? And I would say to the left, to liberals like you, harness the good energy that you have, like your desire for social justice, which I share completely. And no, it’s not related to race. It’s related to human rights inherent in all of us. And pursue those. And pursue the people who are trying to limit them. Anyone trying to limit free speech should be your enemy. But they’re not. You’re on that side. Like, how can you fall for this? Right? Are you hearing me? Do you feel me? Can I get an amen? STUDENT: Thank you, Tucker. Do you have any… Do you invest in Bitcoin? Do you think it’s like a viable asset to invest in? Oh, man. CARLSON: I don’t want to make more enemies. I mean, you want the real… It’s my last answer, but so I… You want the actual answer? Yeah, sure. And here’s why. I spoke at the Bitcoin conference, actually, last year. I’ve spoken at a couple Bitcoin conferences. I love the idea of Bitcoin because I love the idea of financial autonomy. I don’t want what I buy or sell to be tracked. I don’t want my money to be tracked. It’s nobody’s business. I pay my taxes. I’ve never cheated on my taxes. I’ve been very tempted, but I never have one time cheated on my taxes. And once the money’s mine, like, I can do what I want with it. And if you find me breaking the law, arrest me. But if you don’t, it’s none of your beeswax, as the kids say. So I love the idea of the blockchain. I knew some of the people involved in that whole thing. And then… And I still believe in that promise. Okay. Roger Ver, for example. I don’t know how close would you follow this, but, like, there are people who still believe in that. But it turns out that it is not to this point been, I hope it will be, a way to conduct financial transactions privately. At all. And that really freaks me out. I’m really afraid of a digital currency, because that is totalitarian control. If you can punish people, if you can zero out their bank account and keep them from eating, you will have total obedience. Like, that’s totalitarian. And I know that young people love crypto because they’ve been completely screwed in the job market, and there are no financial opportunities for most of them. And they know they’re staring down a life of, if not poverty, certainly a step down from the way they grew up. Most young people. And so Bitcoin for them, crypto in general for them, is a promise of, like, how can I make it in this world? Like, I would like to have a normal life. How can I do that? And crypto is a way they think that they can. And I’m praying for them. I hope that’s true. But I fear that it will become, like so many other things in our country, a scam of sorts, run by a coalition of the financial beneficiaries, like a few people who are getting all the winnings, and the politicians they control who use it to further their control of American society. I’m really worried about that. And so I’ll just be totally bummed with you. I’m a gold buyer. And I’ve been vindicated big time in that. And everyone’s like, oh, you’re crazy buying gold. You know, it was good enough for the Phoenicians. It’s good enough for me. And I, in general, don’t get involved in anything I don’t understand. I think that’s a really good rule. There’s some things I think I understand in terms that I didn’t understand them. But in general, I try to limit myself to things I understand. And nobody can explain to me who Satoshi was, the creator of Bitcoin, this mysterious guy who apparently died, but nobody knows who he was. You know, I grew up in D.C. primarily, in a government family. So CIA. That’s my guess. Can’t prove it. But like, you’re telling me to invest in something whose founder is like mysterious and has billions of dollars of unused Bitcoin. What is that? And no one can answer the question, including some of the biggest holders of Bitcoin in the world, who I know personally. They’re like, oh, it doesn’t matter. What matters to me? Right? STUDENT: Thank you, Tucker.

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