PBS NEWSHOUR: David Brooks of The Atlantic and Ruth Marcus of The New Yorker join Amna Nawaz to discuss the week in politics, Vice President J.D. Vance, Secretary of State Marco Rubio, and a trip to the Vatican. <\/p>\n
AMNA NAWAZ, PBS NEWSHOUR: Let’s turn now to the Vatican visit by Secretary of State Marco Rubio earlier this week. He was also in Rome today, of course, meeting with the Italian prime minister, Giorgia Meloni But he was dispatched to the Vatican. David, as you know, largely to try to smooth things over with Pope Leo, whom the president has attacked multiple times online. The fact that he was dispatched at all, what does that say to you? And do you think he achieved the smoothing over of relations? DAVID BROOKS, THE ATLANTIC: Well, it’s better than J.D. Vance, who was telling the pope that he should learn something about theology. RUTH MARCUS, THE NEW YORKER: Be careful when you talk about theology. BROOKS: Yes. So I think that comment probably meant J.D. was not going to go over there. And there’s been a general shift, if one cares about these things, within Republicans in the focus groups that I have seen and read about, where, when they’re asked who do you support for 2028, almost no hands go up for J.D. Vance, but Marco Rubio seems like a normal grownup in the room. And it is true. If you had asked me in 2010 or 2015, say, who are the 10 senators who are pretty good at being senators, Rubio would have been on my list. He’s a serious guy. He had a very good staff. He dealt with real issues. He seems like a normal guy. And when the mishegoss is over with Trump, he at least has a slightly better shot than somebody like J.D. Vance, who’s totally in the tank. Having said that, I think, when the mishegoss is over — and Ruth can explain the word. [LAUGHTER] MARCUS: We could ask the pope. BROOKS: We could ask the pope. That somebody far away from Trump is going to be wanted, yes. NAWAZ: But do you think he achieved what he set out to achieve at the Vatican? BROOKS: I think it’s OK to see them. I mean, it was somewhat awkward, but I think it was OK, yes. It was better than where we were two weeks ago. NAWAZ: Better than where we were two weeks ago. Ruth. MARCUS: Though he did kind of bring the pope an odd gift. He brought him a crystal football. And the pope said something like: Wow, well, thank you, I guess. It was along those lines. BROOKS: It could have been a mezuzah. That would have been bad. [LAUGHTER] MARCUS: It could have been — well, we got to stop this, David. [LAUGHTER] MARCUS: I think that it was good for Rubio not to present himself there as the alternate to J.D. Vance. I think the president is enjoying playing them off against each other and letting them audition. But I also think this is yet another war with — not just with the pope, but with the first American pope, that is ill-advised on the part of Donald Trump. And why he keeps doing it and doing it and talking about the pope as soft on crime, weak on crime and supporting nuclear weapons is crazy. His numbers and the Republican Party’s numbers with Catholics, who make up a big — very big percentage of the vote and Republican Party support, are cratering. And this is a pope who — and I think I’m allowed to say this — does not seem like he really wants to turn the other cheek when it comes to Donald Trump. He is not pretending that the president isn’t lying about him. He doesn’t mention him by name, but he says, when people say untruths, I’m going to respond. And so I don’t think this is the last makeup session that we’re going to see from the Trump administration to the Vatican. NAWAZ: I know we still have to get to midterms, only because you both mentioned 2028. I want to ask you briefly, do you think him being dispatched says anything about the future of the Republican Party, about Marco Rubio? BROOKS: Yes, he’s the next logical choice. But I would say 2028 is going to be the era of the mother of all vibe shifts. I think it’s going to be an era where Americans have all stripes and in all different ways say, enough. And we saw in England this week, we could see here, where the Green Party and the Reform Party displace the previous major parties. It won’t work the same here because of our system. But that’s a sign of a country saying, enough. MARCUS: And we came up with the Rubio slogan tonight, which is less mishegoss, which for anybody out there who doesn’t know what it means, it means craziness.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n