Pollster and veteran Democratic strategist Mark Penn on Monday told FOX News host Martha MacCallum that the election is closer than it appears. Penn said that while voters are dissatisfied with the economy and Republicans, they are even more unhappy with Democrats. “People are really suffering in terms of the way they perceive the economy, and they’re unhappy with the way it’s going, but the Democrats haven’t stepped up and shown that they will do a better job,” Penn said. “Right now, you can see in the polls that despite the fact that the voters are unhappy with the economy and the Republicans, they obviously think that the Democratic party has drifted too far to the left, and that’s why it’s coming out lower than the Republicans in virtually every poll,” he said.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS: So, Mark, Karl [Rove] called on some of your numbers there. What’s your take as you look at those? MARK PENN: Well, Karl, you beat me to the punchline, but I agree with Karl that this is closer than people think it is. People are unhappy with the economy. They’re unhappy with the Republicans, but they’re also even unhappier with the Democrats. And so you have to say, is this election going to be a referendum on the Republicans, in which case that’s bad, or is it going to be a choice? And are the Republicans going to be able to make it a choice? If they do that, when I ask, who do you have more confidence in to handle the economy, Trump and the Republicans or the Democrats in Congress, Trump and the Republicans win that 53 to 47. So yes, people are really suffering in terms of the way they perceive the economy, and they’re unhappy with the way it’s going, but the Democrats haven’t stepped up and shown that they will do a better job. And that’s why I think this election, although usually the in-party goes out, is still closer than most people think. MACCALLUM: It could get really interesting based on just the toss-up of people’s preference for Republicans or Democrats. It seems like people are going to be paying pretty close attention as we get closer to these races. Let’s take a look at a couple of them. This is the Cook Political Report toss-ups for the Senate, Maine, Michigan, and Ohio, Karl. You know, we’ve heard a lot about Graham Platner in recent days. It looks like he will be head-to-head with Susan Collins, who has been in that seat for a very long time. How does that race look to you right now, Karl? KARL ROVE: Well, he’s got momentum simply because the Democrat governor has stepped out of the race, but I think he’s fundamentally flawed as a candidate. And look, he claims to be a working-class guy. Turns out he got, he said, I got my house with 200, I got the mortgage because of VA. Well, it turns out he got a $ 200,000 loan from his pop, who helped him buy his house. And he’s very left-wing. There are parts of the state which are very left-wing, but there are a lot of parts of that state where there are a lot of not very left-wing voters. And a lot of them are centrist Democrats who voted for Susan Collins in previous elections. So I think she ends up winning. MACCALLUM: Yeah, the old school Maine politicians have hung on for a long time. Susan Collins is one of them, Olympia Snowe before her. So we’ll see where the Maine voters are headed. Here’s Bernie Sanders’ take on Democratic leadership. Let me play this for you, Mark, and get your response. SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: My Republican colleagues are going to say, oh, Bernie is a left-wing communist. Oh my God. Everything that I told you has the strong support of the American people. The reason that the Democratic party is disrespected today is precisely because the leadership is not standing up and fighting for these issues. MACCALLUM: Quick response on that, Mark, as we watch people enter the room here and get ready for the president. PENN: Well, the real question is, has the Democratic party moved too far to the left to be acceptable? Our candidates like [Graham] Platner, you know, and obviously Mamdani and AOC get so much publicity. And obviously, Jeffries, in order to get the speakership himself, has moved so much more aggressively left in terms of the rhetoric. Is this party going to go into the midterms and move back to the center, or is it going to really be seen as too far to the left? Right now, you can see in the polls that despite the fact that the voters are unhappy with the economy and the Republicans, they obviously think that the Democratic party has drifted too far to the left, and that’s why it’s coming out lower than the Republicans in virtually every poll.

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