Columbia University economist Jeffrey Sachs joined Andrew Napolitano on his podcast on Friday to discuss bizarre reports from the New York Times that the original plan for Iran was to install former president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as the interim leader of Iran, but this plan disintegrated when air strikes meant to free him from house arrest ended up seriously wounding him. “I was waiting to hear details like this,” he said. “The story provided never seemed right to me. I was waiting for the inside job, who they were going to put in place, how this coup was actually going to work. And I credit The New York Times with doing a good job of telling us what the real story was.” “Trump said, I’ll pick the next government. He said it. He told us. This is not subtle. People need to listen!” “Now we know what they had in mind, which was that they were going to take a former president who was under house arrest and against the current government, and they were going to put him in place. And then they had to spring him from his house arrest. So they had to kill the guards around him,” Sachs explained. “But it turns out, apparently, that they injured this guy as well. And so the plot failed right away.” “When is this going to be made public and held accountable?” he asked. “Never. Never.” “U.S. foreign policy, going back to the creation of the CIA in 1947, is based on regime change. That means that the United States arrogates to itself the claimed right to decide who governs in other countries.” “It’s happened probably a hundred times since 1947,” Sachs said, citing Lindsey O’Rourke’s book called Covert Regime Change: America’s Secret Cold War. “She was a Ph.D. student of John Mearsheimer. She documented 64 regime-change operations, mostly CIA, between 1947 and 1989.” “What has become of Ahmadinejad? Has he been arrested and executed? I mean, this is treason,” Napolitano asked. “Well, probably they’re not too humored by what happened,” said Sachs. “I’m sure we don’t know, and I have no more information than what was given in that story. “We’re in a situation that has been understandable from the second day. Once this madcap plot to put Ahmadinejad in power failed within the first minutes, the United States was trapped.”

JEFFREY SACHS: Well, I think Trump is right. If Trump said, Stop doing this, Netanyahu would have to stop doing it. The point that Trump is really making is that every illegal action, every illegal war, every completely bizarre scheme, Trump has signed off on. He’s not a puppet of Netanyahu. He’s just an idiot. ANDREW NAPOLITANO: Sorry. What is your take on this New York Times piece alleging, effectively, that the former president, Ahmadinejad, was co-opted by the Israelis and ready to be installed in place of President Pezeshkian, whom you and I have met and interacted with? SACHS: Well, I think that the point of the story is correct, and I was waiting to hear details like this. The point is the following, and again, I would like people to understand, if they don’t know the history. … U.S. foreign policy, going back to the creation of the CIA in 1947, is based on regime change. That means that the United States arrogates to itself the claimed right to decide who governs in other countries. And if the United States doesn’t like who’s governing because maybe they won’t give an oil concession, or they won’t allow a military base, or they won’t pay a payback, or they won’t give a bribe, or they won’t let their territory be used for an insurgency against a neighboring country, then the CIA, which is a private army of the United States, arrogates to itself the right to bring down that government. What we’re watching is this behavior. It’s happened probably a hundred times since 1947. Lindsey O’Rourke, the superb political scientist at Boston College, wrote a book about this about eight years ago called Covert Regime Change. She was a Ph.D. student of John Mearsheimer. She documented 64 regime-change operations, mostly CIA, between 1947 and 1989. She pointed out that they’re disasters. They lead to civil war. They lead to insurrection. They lead to continued unrest. They lead to boomerang effects on the United States. They don’t work. But the CIA is a kind of madcap, completely unaccountable agency. A few presidents try to keep it a bit under control. President Kennedy tried the hardest, and he probably lost his life because of that effort. Trump just encourages it. So with Venezuela, we knew the story as it’s told, that the valiant U.S. military went in and captured the president by surprise, wasn’t true. The stories that have now come out are that this was a regime change in Venezuela with a conspiracy between the CIA on the one side and elements that are now in power in Venezuela on the other side, who conspired to remove the president and then get a promotion themselves, and money no doubt changed hands as well. The Iranian operation was the same. They told us in the first day there will be a new regime. It will be pliant to the United States. That operation failed. Then it was surmised that what the U.S. and Israel had supposedly meant was that they would kill a lot of people, including the religious leader and leaders of the government, and then there would be a public insurrection, and then the regime would change. That story never seemed right to me. I was waiting for the inside job, who they were going to put in place, how this coup was actually going to work. And I credit The New York Times with doing a good job of telling us what the real story was. Yes, Trump said, I’ll pick the next government. He said it. He told us, This is not subtle. People need to listen. But then now we know what they had in mind, which was that they were going to take a former president who was under house arrest and against the current government, and they were going to put him in place. And then they had to spring him from his house arrest. So they had to kill the guards around him. But it turns out, apparently, that they injured this guy as well. And so the plot failed right away. In the meantime, the whole world economy is reeling. Oil prices are $ 110 a barrel. Gasoline in the United States is $ 4.50 a gallon. The Straits of Hormuz are closed. Thousands have been killed. Tens of billions of dollars have gone because of this craziness. Now, when is that going to be made public and held accountable? Obvious answer: never. Never. There’s no accountability. Gangsters aren’t accountable. This kind of undeclared war, as your show leads in, rightly, every episode, has become commonplace, just as it says. Nobody looks at this. The last time that one looked at the horrors under the covers of the CIA was 1975. It was called the Church Committee. Frank Church of Idaho, a brave man, looked and found out that it was far worse than anyone thought. That was 51 years ago. We’ve never had another look. So, yes, this madcap, crazy idea – and Trump is right. Netanyahu didn’t tell him to do it. Netanyahu wanted to do it. Trump’s an idiot enough to do it. The other presidents before him knew that this was crazy, but not Trump, because he doesn’t understand. And so this is where we are. And The New York Times did a good job telling us in two good stories: one about the meeting with Netanyahu, the head of Mossad, and Trump, where they were the only three in the room that thought that this whole idea wasn’t crazy; and then the second story that exposed just how completely crazy this whole thing is. But the mindset needs to be understood. The mindset is the United States shouldn’t leave well enough alone. The United States shouldn’t abide by any international law. The United States shouldn’t abide by the U.N. Charter that it created. The United States should change governments when and where it wants: in Mexico, in Greenland, in Canada, in Venezuela, in Cuba, in Iran, you name it. That’s our foreign policy, so-called. NAPOLITANO: So what has become of Ahmadinejad? Has he been arrested and executed? I mean, this is treason. SACHS: Well, probably they’re not too humored by what happened. I’m sure we don’t know, and I have no more information than what was given in that story. But the point is what we’re doing is nothing like what is discussed on the surface. It has nothing to do with the Constitution. It has nothing to do with international law. It has nothing to do with national law.
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